Joy Division - New Order - Revengue - Electronic - Monaco

Joy Division
1976	Conceptually, Joy Division is born at a Sex pistols concert attended by Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook, Terry Mason and Ian Curtis
1977 begins	Tony Tabac came in as drummer, followed by an official band name, Warsaw
1977 ends	Steve Brotherdale joins as a drummer. New drummer, Stephen Morris completes Joy Division lineup.
1978	First Joy Division concert
1979	Joy Division plays with The Cure, in London
1980	Last Joy Division live appearance.
May 18th 1980	Ian Curtis ends his life
Ceremony! Joy Division / New Order. Love Will Tear Us Appart, A Means To An End, 24 Hours

U2 would play "With or Without You" during the 80s, and Bono sometimes would sing bits of "Love Will Tear Us Apart" in the extra verses of the song.

Subject: RE: (Fac33) warsaw I've heard this as well, that Ian in particular was unhappy with the synths... and, ironically, later after he got into Kraftwerk and other synth bands, he later grew to appreciate synth music and Martin Hannett started adding the synth touches that made Joy Division more "mainstream", such as in Love will tear us apart and Isolation. I think that Joy Division should have released this album, they had the contract with RCA and were all set to come out and take the world by storm in 1978, they had to wait a whole year for their proper first album to come out and that had synths in it as well... I think the unreleased album is brilliant, except for a few parts where it's obvious where I can see what Ian was thinking, like where the synthesized version of Transmission is cheesy, but you can see a lot of touches of what J.D. was to become.Damian Smith wrote: >Is Warsaw a completely live CD? No, it was the bands first draft at an album, which never got released. Acording to the booklet inside, it says that the band were unhappy with the synths added by the producer and didn't want these mixes to ruin their punk image. I'm not so sure that's true.

I think that Ian possibly liked KW way before they used synth in JD... since Man Machine and TEE were the albums that he liked. The fact that he liked them that early, does not mean that he wanted as part of the sound of his band, as he might have wanted to be more like Iggy and Velvets.

"Stiff Kittens" -> Warsaw -> Joy Division -> New Order -> ...

Stiff Kittens was not a name the band *ever* had... it was the name that someone else wanted to give them (Buzzcock people, I think), but the band never adopted that name -- I think this is a *big* difference. By the time of the first gig, they had chosen the name. The band had Ian, Bernard and Peter and not two unknowns. There was a drummer early on, then Steve Brotherdale joined in, and that was Warsaw. Then Steve left for another band (No Panic? they had one single and I am too lazy to look for it), and wanted Ian to go along. Ian did not, and Steve Morris came in -- while still Warsaw.

bernard says: "[hooky] used to play high lead bass because I liked my guitar to sound distorted, and the amplifier I had would only work when it was full volume. When Hooky played low, he couldn't hear himself."

Love Will Tear Us Appart

(2ND PEEL SESSIONS, 1979)
When routine bites hard,
and ambitions run low.
And resentment runs high,
but emotions won't grow.
And we're changing our ways.
taking different roads.

Then love, love will tear us appart again.
Love, love will tear us appart again.

Why is the bedroom so col,
turned away on your side?
Is my timing that flawed,
have our feelings run dry?
Yet there's still this appeal,
that we've kept through our lives.

Did you cry out in your sleep,
all my failings expose?
And there's a taste in my mouth,
as desperation takes hold.
yes that's something so good,
just can't function no more?

But love, love will tear us appart again.
Love, love will tear us appart again.
Love, love will tear us appart again.
Love, love will tear us appart again.

A Means To An End

(CLOSER, 1980)
A legacy so far removed,
one day will be improved.
Eternal rights we left behind,
we were the better kind.
Two of the same, set free too,
I always looked to you,
I always looked to you,
I always looked to you.

We fought for good, stood side by side,
our friendship never died.
On stranger waves, the lows and highs,
our vision touched the sky.
Immortalists with points to prove.
I put my trust in you,
I put my trust in you,
I put my trust in you.

A house somewhere, on foreign soil,
where ageing lovers call.
Is this your goal, your final needs,
where dogs and vultures eat.
Committed still, I turn to go.
I put my trust in you,
I put my trust in you,
I put my trust in you,
I put my trust in you,
in you, in you, in you, in you.

24 hours

(CLOSER, 1980)
So this is permanence, love shattered pride.
What once was innocence, turned on its side.
A cloud hangs over me, marks every move,
deep in the memory, of what once was love.

Oh how I realized how I wanted time,
put into perspective, triedso hard to find.
Just for one moment, I thought I'd found my way.
Destiny unfolded, I watched it slip away.

Excessive flash points, beyond all reach.
Solitary demands for all I'd like o keep.
Let's take a ride out, see what we can find,
a valueless collection of hopes and pas desires.

I never realized the lengths I'd have to go,
all the darkest corners of a sense I didn't know.
Just for one moment, I heard somebody call,
looked beyond the day in hand, there's nothing there at all.

Now that I've realized how it's all gone wrong,
gotta find some therapy, this treatment takes too long,
Deep in the heart of where sympathy held sway,
gotta find my destiny, before it gets too late.

THIEVES LIKE US

I've watched your face for a long time
It's always the same
I've studied the cracks and the wrinkles
You were always so vain
Well, now you live your life like a shadow
In the pouring rain

Oh, it's called love
Yes, it's called love
Oh, it's called love
And it belongs to us

Oh, it dies so quickly
It grows so slowly
But when it dies, it dies for good
It's called love
And it belongs to everyone but us

I've lived my life in the valleys
I've lived my life on the hills
I've lived my life on alcohol
I've lived my life on pills

But it's called love
And it belongs to us
It's called love
And it's the only thing that's worth living for

It's called love
And it belongs to us
It's called love
Yes it's called love

Oh, love is found in the east and west
But when love is at home, it's the best
Love is the cure for every evil
Love is the air that supports the eagle

It's called love
And it's so un-cool
It's called love
And somehow it's become unmentionable

It's called love
And it belongs to every one of us
It's called love
And it cuts your life like a broken knife

Oh love, love, love, love, love
It's called love
And it belongs to us

It's called love, love, love, love, love
It's called love
And it belongs to everyone but us

LONESOME TONIGHT

I walk along the street
I look into your eyes
I'm pleasant when we meet
I'm there when you go home
How many times before
Could you tell I didn't care?
When you turned your back on me
I knew we'd get nowhere
Do you believe in youth
The history of all truth
A heart that's left at home
Becomes a heart of stone

Do you believe in truth?
The lies we told of youth
A cause we call our own
Beside an empty throne
How many times before
Could you tell I didn't care?
When you reached out in your sleep
And you knew I wasn't there
My eyes are made of stone
Just like your sordid home
How many times before
Did you leave my soul alone?

SHELLSHOCK

That's the way

Shellshock, shellshock
Shellshock, shellshock
Shellshock, shellshock

Shellshock

Hold on! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

You call me on the phone, you left me all alone
All I get from you is shellshock
Another day goes by and all I do is cry
All I get from you is shellshock

I'd tell the world and save my soul
But rain falls down and I feel cold
A cold that sleeps within my heart
It tears the earth and sun apart

But that's the way that I can win
A victim of your evil sin
You've lost the hold you've had on me
By causing the changes that you never see

Hold on! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

Hold on! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On, until your heart!

When we walk through open doorways,
Counting time in one or more ways
We can't find our peace of mind
And life becomes a life of crime

And that's the day I call your name
I came to you, I called in vain
You lost the faith within your heart
The fire in your soul from the end to the start

Hold on! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On, until your heart! until your heart!
That's the way, that's the way

I've been good and I've been bad
But common sense I've never had
No matter how I try and try,
I hide the truth behind a lie

But that's the way that I can win
A victim of your evil sin
You lost the faith within your heart
The fire in your soul from the end to the start

Hold on! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

On! It's never enough
It's never enough until your heart stops beating
The deeper you get, the sweeter the pain
Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating

TRUE FAITH

I feel so extraordinary
Something's got a hold on me
I get this feeling I'm in motion
A sudden sense of liberty
I don't care 'cause I'm not there
And I don't care if I'm here tomorrow
Again and again I've taken too much
Of the things that cost you too much
I used to think that the day would never come
I'd see delight in the shade of the morning sun
My morning sun is the drug that brings me near
To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear
I used to think that the day would never come
That my life would depend on the morning sun...

When I was a very small boy,
Very small boys talked to me
Now that we've grown up together
They're afraid of what they see
That's the price that we all pay
And the value of destiny comes to nothing
I can't tell you where we're going
I guess there was just no way of knowing
I used to think that the day would never come
I'd see delight in the shade of the morning sun
My morning sun is the drug that brings me near
To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear
I used to think that the day would never come
That my life would depend on the morning sun...

I feel so extraordinary
Something's got a hold on me
I get this feeling I'm in motion
A sudden sense of liberty
The chances are we've gone too far
You took my time and you took my money
Now I fear you've left me standing
In a world that's so demanding
I used to think that the day would never come
I'd see delight in the shade of the morning sun
My morning sun is the drug that brings me near
To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear
I used to think that the day would never come
That my life would depend on the morning sun...

1963

It was January, 1963
When Johnny came home with a gift for me
He said I bought it for you because I love you
And I bought it for you because it's your birthday, too
He was so very nice, he was so very kind
To think of me at this point in time
I used to think of him, he used think of me
He told me to close my eyes
My gift would be a great surprise
I saw tears were in his eyes
He never meant to hurt me
Oh, God, Johnny, don't point that gun at me
There's so many ways our lives have changed
But please, I beg, don't do this to me
Johnny, don't point that gun at me
Can I save my life at any price?
For butter crunch will you listen to me?

And though he was ashamed that he had took a life
Johnny came home with another wife
And he often remembered how it used to be
Before that special occasion, 1963
There was too many ways that you could kill someone
Like in a love affair, when the love is gone
He told me to close my eyes
My gift would be a great surprise
I saw hatred in his eyes
He never meant to hurt me
Oh, God, Johnny, don't point that gun at me
There's so many ways our lives have changed
But please, I beg, don't do this to me
Johnny, you keep on using me
Can I change my life for any price?
Oh, Johnny, won't you listen to me?

He told me to close my eyes
My gift would be a great surprise
I saw hatred in his eyes
But he never meant to hurt me
Oh, God, Johnny, don't point that gun at me
There's so many ways our lives have changed
But please, I beg, don't do this to me
Johnny, you keep on using me
Can I change my life for any price?
Oh, Johnny, won't you listen to me?

I just want you to be mine,
I don't want this world to shine
I don't want this bridge to burn
Oh, Johnny, do you miss me?
I just want to feel for you
I will always feel for you...

FINE TIME

You're much too young
To be a part of me
Too young
To get a hold on me

You're much too young
You're much too young
You're much too young
To mess around with me

Hey
You know I've met a lot of cool chicks
But I've never met a girl with all her own teeth
That's why I love you babe
That's why we could be
But you're too young
Too young

Hey
Sophisticated lady
You know I've met a lot of cool chicks
But you've got style
You've got class
But most of all
You've got love technique

ALL THE WAY

It doesn't take a genius to tell me what I am
Or lecture me with poetry, and tell me that I can
I don't remember what happened yesterday
I don't give a damn about what all those people say

It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone
It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone

It don't take no Houdini to tell me what I am
Parasites and literasites they 'd burn me if they can
But I don't give a damn about what those people say
They pick you up and kick you out, they hurt you every day

It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone
It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone

It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone
It takes years to find the nerve to be apart from what you've done
To find the truth inside yourself and not depend on anyone

LOVE LESS

There was a time I call before
When all I knew was what I saw
The keeper of a major key
I lived in a town called Liberty

I worked hard, to give you all the things that you need
And almost anything that you see
I spent a lifetime working on you
And you won't even talk to me

Can't you see?
Why don't you look at me?
It's not your right to be so much my enemy

I knew that I could never give
You knew that you could not forgive
No price or pride would fall before
A ten foot wall without a door

But you know, I watch every step you can make
To find some other fool you can take
And I don't know why I even try
Because it all comes down to this..

Can't you see?
Why don't you look at me?
It's not your right to be so much my enemy

Can't you see?
Why don't you look at me?
It's not your right to be so much my enemy

I worked hard, to give you all the things that you need
And almost anything that you see
I spent a lifetime working on you
And you won't even talk to me

ROUND & ROUND

I just can't help thinking what you've done to me
You built a wall of love and tore it right down in front of me
And you think you know what's going on
You keep telling me that I am wrong
I don't care about what you do
Cos if you mess with me I'll get rid of you

The picture you see is no portrait of me
It's too real to be shown to someone I don't own
And it's driving me wild
It makes me act like a child

You think I am crazy, but what can I do?
You waste your time, like my money
It ain't so funny, but it's true
(Don't waste my money, baby)
Now you can't tell me what's going on
And that I am weak while you are strong
What is it you need, that makes your heart bleed?
Do you really know cos it doesn't show

The picture you see is no portrait of me
It's too real to be shown to someone I don't own
And it's driving me wild
It makes me act like a child

The picture you see is no portrait of me
It's too real to be shown to someone I don't own
And it's driving me wild
It makes me act like a child

RUN

Answer me Why won't you answer me
I can't recall the day that I last heard from you
Well you don't get a town like this for nothing
So here's what you've got to do
You work your way to the top of the world
Then you break your life in two

Well what's the use in complaining
When you've got what you don't need?
Anyone would think you were hardened too
What do you want me to believe?

What the hell is happening?
I can't think of everything
I don't know what day it is
Or who I'm talking to

But I know that I'm okay
Cos you're here with me today
I haven't got a single problem
Now that I'm with you

So what's the use in complaining
When you've got everything you need?
Anyone would think you were hardened too
What do you want me to believe?

MR DISCO

How can I ever forget you?
You don't know just what I've been through
The holiday we spent together
Lives with me now and forever

I tried but I can't find you
Tell me now what do I do?
I tried but I can't find you
Tell me now what do I do?

I can't find my piece of mind
Because I need you with me all of the time
I used to think about you night and day
I used to feel what language cannot say
Oh, I can't find you
No, I can't find my piece of mind without you

Maybe you will write me a letter
And tell me why I never met you
Our rendezvous just ended in sorrow
Without you there's no tomorrow

I tried but I can't find you
Tell me now what do I do?
I tried but I can't find you
Tell me now what do I do?

I can't find my piece of mind
Because I need you with me all of the time
I used to think about you night and day
I didn't care what other people would say
Oh, I can't find you
No, I can't find my piece of mind without you

I can't find my piece of mind
Because I need you with me all of the time
I used to think about you night and day
I used to feel what language cannot say
Oh, I can't find you
No, I can't find my piece of mind without you

Or with her, with you girl, it really don't do
He sees other's faces, but never found you

VANISHING POINT

Nothing in this world
Can touch the music that I heard
When I woke up this morning
It put the Sun into my life
It cut my heartbeat with a knife
It was like no other morning

I don't belong to no one
But I want to be with you
I can't be owned by no one
What am I supposed to do?

I can't see the sense in your leaving
All I need is your love to believe in

Don't look into the Sun
It's not for me or anyone
To steal the light out of the sky
Is it really such a sin?
Cos if it is then I'll give in
I can't live without your love

I don't belong to no one
But I want to be with you
I can't be owned by no one
What am I supposed to do?

I can't see the sense in your leaving
All I need is your love to believe in
And for you I would do what I can
But I can't change the way that I am
Joy Division New Order Revengue Electronic Monaco The Other Two

New Order.

Ceremony! Joy Division / New Order.
Must hear songs: ShellShock. Bizarre Love Triangle. Touched By The Hand Of God

The members of New Order were never really much into playing live. What they were most concerened about was the party after the gig. Encores just delayed the fun. One day in 1983, they came up with the idea of turning on Stephen Morris' drum machine and letting it go while everyone walked offstage. To add a little spice (and to keep the audience slightly interested), they programmed a sequencer to run a line from Gillian Gilbert's keyboards. That seemed to work well, so they had another sequencer add a Peter Hook base-line--and before they knew it, theyhad the foundations for a new song. Legend has it that New Order got loaded up on LSD and took these programs into the studio. They managed to get all the tracks down but were told by the engineers to go sleep it off while the song was pieced together. When it was finished, they had a very danceable eight-minute song that was pressed as a 12" single entitled "Blue Monday". The record was distributed to dance clubs around England. At the time, the big dance tracks were "Physical" by Olivia Newton-John and "I Love Rock and Roll" by Joan Jett. No one had ever heard anything quite like this New Order track. It caught on very quickly, selling more than 3 million copies around the world. In the process, the songed forged all sorts of links between alternative music, new wave, rock and regular dance music. Dozens of musicians were moved to expand on these concepts, adding a new dimension to music in the post-punk world. In short, "Blue Monday" made it cool for many people to dance again. And it all started because one band hated doing encores.

Ceremonial jd covers Label: MERE MORTAL COMPILATION. 1995. JOY DIVISION COVERS BY IKON, DECAF, SUB VERSION, TRANCE TO THE SUN, YOU SHRIEK AND MORE. INCLUDES "LOVE WILL TEAR US APART," "SHADOWPLAY" AND "ATMOSPHERE."

There's a band called ORGY who do a cover of Blue Monday.

New order are considering releasing a version of Love Will Tears Us Appart in December.

Industrial Tribute to New Order: Morgue- Thieves like us, Individual industry- Bizarre love triangle, Biopsy- Fine time, Clone dt- Ceremony/Temptation, Nude- Perfect Kiss, Toward the Cathedral- Regret, Resonate- Your silent face, Um ou Nao- We all stand, Oil filter-Confusion, Aghast view- True Faith, Tetine- Truth, Etern- Touched by the hand of God, Harry- Doubts even here, Simbolo- State of the nation, Night shift- Vanishing point

News and Apollo: Barney didnt seem to know much about the boxed set apart that it could have new material on it. The new Electronic album is almost done...The title should be TWISTED TENDERNESS. New order will record new material and a New album will be. So I asked him..."So New order are back!""Yes definitely" was his answer!
The support bands Gabrielles wish and the Doves(ex Sub Sub) were really good.

NewOrder remix to be released on a Japanese compilation MERCURY COMPILATION JAPAN CD tracks by Method Man, Pierre Henry, New Order, Goldie, U2, Roni Size, Bjork & more, remixed by Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, Propellerheads, Fatboy Slim, Spring Heel Jack. Release Date: 27-Jul-98

Concerning Saville, his inspiration and New Order Release Covers: The Italian Futurists were a group of artists that celebrated the machine age in art, quite ahead of their time at the beginning of the 1900's. The key members all met early deaths in the war or car crashes (ironic). The Movement cover was also nicked from a Depero poster.

Select Magazine, Sept. 93: "Bernard is the leader of New Order. Not just because he's the singer, theone people most want to interview or photograph; not because, according totheir engineer, Michael Johnson "most of the ideas come from Barney"; noteven because he's the most paranoid of the four (though that comes into it).It's because in a quartet of willful personalities, Bernard's is the mostwillful. It's wrapped around him. He's boyish, endearing ("I don't thinkthe others will agree with you on that one") and incredibly softly spoken,but he's in control. "I think I was more endearing when I was little," he murmurs. "Because life toughens you up. It teaches you that sometimes to sort people out youhave to be a twat. You know, business-wise, if you're nice all the time,people view that as a weakness. I think you've got to be a bit of a twat tobe a lead singer really. To be a fully fledged, all-the-medals lead singer.It's difficult. You need a certain swell-headedness. I've grown to fit thejob, but unfortunately the job's grown as well."

New order Collabs The Barney / 808 collaboration was way cool. 'ex:el' is a truly spiffing album. 808's follow up, (the slightly less solid 'Gorgeous') featured Hooky's bass to She's Lost Control sampled as the hook (heheh etc) to Contrique. Wicked track.

new order are not just synthpop. they are more diverse than that. they take inspiration from the velvets, the sex pistols, the stooges, chic, kraftwerk, miles davis, gustav mahler, bob dylan, the buzzcocks...the list goes on and on. bernard sumner's top 10 list has everything from led zeppelin to technotronic on it. maybe the work of recent years has pigeonholed them into synthpop, but new order are a punk rock band in spirit and heart. they had absolutely nothing to do with the new romantics like duran, depeche, yazoo, etc while these other teen-idol bands were prancing around in their hip haircuts, clothes and roland presets, new order were off dropping acid and coaxing out alien slabs of sound from their dilapidated analog homebuilt synthesizers.

All 4 of new orders memeber are from a punk back ground. Gillian was the guitar player from an all girl punk group.. they picked her for new order cuz they thought she had no style and wasn't very good. they felt they could mold her into what they wanted...

NEW CONCERT DATES FOR UK AND US!!! According to Tom Atencio (mgr. for the band), NewOrder will play two more shows in the UK shortly after the Phoenix Festival. In addition, the band will play one North American (U.S.) date in September - the location not given because it is not final. When asked about the reunion, Atencio stated: "They are working together and they are happy." In addition, he added that a new CD is coming in addition to the compilation box set. The foursome is busy with new photo shoots just to let you know. Also I have added a links section to the tour support site and wondered if any one wanted to have their web site listed there. If so please email me or use ICQ 7676936 to contact me. To keep updated please visit the music 4 pleasure site at joydivision.net or "The New Order support site" at http://members.wbs.net/homepages/u/l/t/ultralimited.html. take and keep faith Sincerely, Joe Dominguez

Steve though that Hooky was Barney's dad when they first met. Gillian's was on the longest three-month trial with New Order. (As of Sept 93) they never told her whether she was in or not.

Peter Hook 1993: "the thing about blur and suede is that I've heard it all before and I've heard it done better." from 96.3 radio detroit Bernard Sumner 1996: "I like oasis but I'm not all that impressed by blur or pulp, but yeah I like oasis o.k.". from YM magazine. The only way new order could be a britpop group is to: 1. make fun of bands that use "technology" then make an electronic album (ala blur) 2. rip off 60's british bands and not be original (ala oasis and the verve)3. be popular in america for onlly 15 minutes (ala blur, pulp, and next up:verve)4. make a really good record, then start sounding like led zeppelin (alastone roses) 5. result to sounding like sloppy american indie bands when your records don't sell (blur....who credited pavement for the inspiration for their last album).

An independant Australian band called "Ki" do an acoustic guitar-only cover of the 7" edit of 'blue monday'/

Quote from Barney again (from a gig in New Zealand I think): "On my left... I have Peter Hook... On my right... I have Gillian Gilbert... and behind me... I have Ian Curtis(!)... Straight from Top Of The Pops... We're New Order!"

My opinion is: anyone considering looking into Kraftwerk should. They are probably the most influental band in electronic music genre. Some people even say that they are the first techno group ever, a year or so ago I heard Tour De France in a technoclub. Sure, the sound sounds cheap and old but you have to keep in mind that the album was released in 1981 when synthesizers were expensive and huge and analog (BTW: they are now extremely collectible). Listen to Depeche Mode's Speak And Spell and you'll hear that this was the sound of the synths at that time. I would actually declare the members of Kraftwerk as geniuses - the way they strip down the music and the lyrics to create simplistic (I would rather say minimalistic) masterpieces. Simple tunes are usually the best way to make a good song, Johnny B Goode is a classic and a very good example -two accords. Two very good albums by Kraftwerk are The Man Machine (with The Model and Space Lab) and Radio Activity (with the beautiful title song). Of course they have best of compilation out (The Model - import only?) but if you want a little more "modern" sound, try their The Mix - a compilation released 1991 with re-recorded tracks to make it more 90's. I agree that listening to Kraftwerk is good for the musically taste palette. Before about a year ago, I liked kraftwerk alot, but mainly as a sort of novelty act. I was into this 80s thing at the time, and that's what I thought they were, just some cheesy band from the 80s that was neat. I owned The Mix and Computer World. Then I got Radioactivity. Amazing. The silly stuff you hear on Computer World was not there. The music from that album is cold, calculating and serious. It is the albums from the 70's you should be listening to, not the "newer" ones. (Computerworld being only 3 albums ago, for KW) I think that Autobahn and Trans Europe Express are considered to be their best. Computerworld was a fairly influential album that set some of the synth-pop styles, but really, Gary Numan did alot of the same stuff already. And remember, '81 is when Movement came out, the same year as Computerworld. Kraftwerk's music from the early years is where the real revolution is. Kraftwerk took the avant-garde sounds of academic Europe and turned them into beautiful, chilling pop tunes. I'm not saying you didn't "get" Kraftwerk before, but rather that the Kraftwerk that you had wasn't as worthy of "getting" as some of the older stuff. Maybe after you hear the 70s releases, you'll have a new spin on Computerworld. I would not recommend getting the Mix, however. The songs are dance mixes from the turn of this decade of kraftwerk songs. They sound dated. As to finding other albums by them, I dunno, I found Radioactivity at my mall, and I've seen Trans Europe Express there, and maybe Autobahn. I don't know where you live, but any of those "MegaStore" things should have alot of kraftwerk stuff.

New Order ARE re-united ! From BBC Radio One comes word that... New Order HAVE re-formed. There is to be a new album, and a one-off gig at The Phoenix Festival, Stratford Upon Avon on 18th July 98. More news will be posted at the Procession Web Site as details come in. (URL below) Enter the PROCESSION Web Site: http://www.mindspring.com/~jcabarcos/neworder.html" -=-=- Subject: (Fac33) cure vs NO OK...Here's MY big, important manifesto reguarding NewOrder vs. Cure: Both bands emerged out of the post-punk delerium, and Joy Division and The Cure were constantly lumped together for their first few years. Initially, Neworder and joy Division were slightly more popular than the Cure, and Robert Smith claimed that this was because of all the publicity New Order gained via Ian's suicide. I think that Robert Smith has always been a closet-admirer of Neworder's music, and I think that they have as well been Closet-admirers of his. They both led the early 80s electronica emergence, with their singles 'Blue Monday' and 'The Walk', which were released a week apart, and each of which became the groups' biggest hits till that time. Since so few electronic rythms were available on analogue synth catalogues at the time, the tracks sounded very similar, and everyone started pointing fingers. I think that they were merely co-innovators, however, since nothing of the sort had really appeared till then, and because the releases were so close together. The latter scenario is the best, and it all is pretty trivial in the end, since after a year or so in the 80s techno-pop busines, Smith went back to organic guitar music for the remainder of his career. The big exceptions that remain are the bass lines, which tend to be shared equally through both bands every few years. "New Dawn Fades" appeared inseveral mutations throughout several of the Cure's first albums. "In Between Days" by the cure expands on the guitar work of "Ceremony". "A New Religion" by Electronic is unmistakeably a re-working of the Cure's "Fascination Street" and The Cure's latest single "Wrong Number" contains a generous and obvious sample of the synth lines in "Turning Point" by Electronic. I truly believe that neither party has any sort of maliscious intent, and I think that each party realises the similarities and doesn't care, since both Hook and Smith have made mention of the similarities, though neither has sought any sort of litigation in the matter. Therefore, I contend that no matter what the devout New-Order-But-Not-Cure fans or the Cure-But-Not-New-Order fans (Of whom there are many) say about the similarities that DO INDEED EXIST, they are probably either incidental, coincidental, accidental or done as hommage to an artist whom the plagariser secretly admires. So THERE.

Frente - Bizarre Love Triangle Oyster Band - Love Vigilantes Velocity Girl - Your Silent Face Boo Radleys - True Faith Cover called Boo! Faith (John Peel Session)

NewOrder will not be recording the official England World Cup Song in 1998, as reported by New Musical Express. However, there is a NewOrder connection as Electronic's Johnny Marr co-wrote the song with Echo & the Bunnymen's Ian McCulloch five years ago. '(How Does It Feel To Be) On Top Of The World?' will be re-recorded (with vocals to be provided by a number of British groups and members of the U.K. soccer team) and then released as a single by London Records on May 25. The song's chorus includes the terrace-friendly chant: "England we love you." If my memory serves correct, England did not qualify for the 1994 World Cup - so was this song, perhaps, written and not used for that occasion ? ----- Kraftwerk ok first of all, let's keep in mind that kraftwerk has been around since the 60's. not just the 70's or 80's. all these other bands you are comparing to, like visage, which i like too btw, were after their inception. i find it very interesting to hear the bands that influence my favorite bands. i even read somewhere that one of the new order members said that your silent face was a blatent rip off of kraftwerk, i forgot which song though. i didn't even think about it until i read that. ----- Joy Division / New Order tribute by gothic bands, called Ceremonial. Not too bad....but really dark. ----- Favorite omd is their cover of Kraftwerk's "neon lights" ----- NEW ORDER PONDERS NEW ALBUM Five years after New Order released their last album, the #11 hit Republic, and more than three years since rumors of the band's ill-tempered demise kept the grapevine hopping for weeks, plans are afoot for the group to reunite later this year. Meeting together in late January all four original band members -- Peter Hook, Gillian Gilbert, Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris -- indicated that any past difficulties have long since been ironed out, and the only major obstacle to a new New Order album would be the individual members' own. musical commitments: Gilbert and Morris wryly named The Other Two project, Sumner's Electronic, and at the top of the commercial heap, Hook's Monaco, who are currently working on their second album. Interest in New Order, of course, has only been increased by the success of the recent Joy Division boxed set, Heart And Soul. The first pressing of the album sold far in excess of expectations, while both of Joy Division's original albums, Unknown Pleasures and Closer, have re-entered the UK chart. "The New Order thing is nice because, after saying goodbye to Joy Division [the band became New Order following Curtis L980 suicide] and all those songs, I'd hate to do it twice,' said Hook, who with Sumner, Morris and the late lan Curtis, formed Joy Division in 1977. "1 have no idea what it will be like, though. In the past, 1 think New Order was so close, and so together for so long, that it's obviously going to breed resentment and a bit of contempt because we were in each others' pockets for 18 years and we desperately, desperately, needed to get out of it. All of us felt the same way, Bernie and 1, Stephen and Gillian, we were all so close that we honestly didn't know our ass from our elbow. "The nicest thing in the world has been to step back and be able to appreciate what we've done, and see that was a good part, that was a had part, and honestly I don't think the personality problems we had in the past will come up because we're much older and much wiser. And we know how well we work together; it's like 1 said to Bernie,'God, it's a gift. We had a Rift together.' And as a musician, you can't really ask for anything more."

The Herald (Glasgow) January 30, 1998 HEADLINE: Order of the day BYLINE: David Belcher Boss Grooves: David Belcher finds the legacy of Joy Division has been rekindled IT'S not often that I can claim to have been a front-row witness to history, but last week that's definitely what I was - even if it was only in the sense of me over-hearing, from a back-row distance of 200-odd miles, what might transpire to be one of the rock continuum's more notable events. Er, what am I on about, like? New Order! Four years ago the quartet broke up amid much acrimony and soured huffiness, thus ending their 13-year reign as prime exponents of a dance-music mode best described as the alienated post-disco-post-punk rumba. Then, last week, for the first time since their split, they all met in one room - their management offices in Manchester. And I was there! Well, I was there hanging on the other end of the phone in Glasgow while the man I was interviewing, New Order's erstwhile bassist, Peter Hook, answered the door to let in the other three. Most cordial it sounded, too. Hugs were evidently being hugged. Loud hallos and fond greetings exchanged. Laughter sounded. A child's piping tones pealed. Four grown-ups had reunited in order to re-evaluate the achievements and the fractures of their shared youthdom in an adult fashion. There was a palpable air of happy anticipation. But there was also a measure of fear in advance of the foursome's long-overdue meeting. For as Peter Hook could be heard jokily confessing over his shoulder to his former New Order compatriots as he headed back to me and the phone: "This is like your first day at school all over again! I'm terrified!" So are New Order about to re-form? What's the long-term prognosis for the band whose epic single Blue Monday demonstrated that the 12in remix could constitute art, and whose global success underpinned that of the Factory label throughout the eighties? Too early to say, of course. Daft question, frankly. "Don't ask . . . I shouldn't even be telling you we're meeting each other again," says Hooky amiably, his energies of course presently being focused on his current band, Monaco. OK. So let's get back to the script. While New Order begat the indie-dance genre, New Order were themselves begat by Joy Division. And this week the London label re-released a new four-CD Joy Division compilation, Heart And Soul. It first came out on December 8 last year, instantly selling out and at the same time cornering the market in critical plaudits. As well as Unknown Pleasures and Closer - the two enduring albums Joy Division recorded in their all-too-brief existence between late 1977 and the early hours of March 18, 1980 - the new collection offers a host of hitherto-unreleased out-takes, demos, radio sessions, rehearsal tracks, and live cuts. Twenty years on, Joy Division's uncompromised music remains as uniquely haunted, driven, and compelling as ever. But maybe, I put it to Peter Hook, some folk have been blinded to the actual power of Joy Division's sound by the terrible-yet-romantic finality of the group's end, which came when Joy Division's lyricist and singer, Ian Curtis, took his own life. In other words, while every sentient groover cites Joy Division as a major influence, few of us actually play the records as often as we should . . . "I'd like to think it's all down to the music," says Hook. "If the music's not there, you've got nothing. I mean, my wife's 26, and most of her friends are 21, and they've never heard any Joy Division. One night they all said: 'Go on, play us some of this Joy Division then.' I did, and they really liked it. There's a musical magic that's still current in this day and age." He adds: "But I was very reluctant to do a boxed set. I didn't think it would achieve anything. But London were adamant, and when I knew it was going to be substantial, with a booklet as well as four CDs, I thought 'OK'. I've been gobsmacked at the way it's been received, and very flattered. "It was a moment in time that was caught forever, a moment that was much more special than we knew. I keep thinking: 'Wow, we really did have an effect on peoples' lives.'" You had to listen to old Joy Division tapes for the new compilation, but do you listen to your old stuff otherwise? "No, never . . . or only with one of my best mates, who's a mad Joy Division fan, after we've had a few and he's asking to hear early demo tapes. Closer's still one of my favourite albums, though, but not Unknown Pleasures. As producer, Martin Hannett had very different ideas about that album to us. Then again, if we'd produced it, we'd have made it a heavy metal LP. We wanted it rough, tough, and macho." Do you have regrets about not having been able to do more for Ian Curtis during the concluding months of his life, a time when Joy Division were touring ferociously hard and Curtis's feelings of misery and otherness were being exacerbated by the sudden onset of epilepsy? "Obviously, but it was down to inexperience. We were 22, 23, and we'd never been a party to anything like what was happening. We didn't know how to act, how to be of help. Now, having been through depression myself, I understand more, but, as a young person my attitude was: 'This isn't happening, ignore it, it'll go away.' " Can you explain more about Joy Division's roots. Because it's always puzzled me, as a one-time Mancunian northern soulie myself, how Joy Division came in 1978 to record a mysterious and unissued album produced by a top northern soul DJ of the era, Richard Searling. Were you Wigan Casino all-nighter boys? "Round about 1974, 1976, I was a Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry boy, a regular in the famous Roxy Room at Pips nightclub." Blimey, so was I! Pips! Where young Mancunian herberts of all genders dressed in tuxedos and silken cocktail frocks, affecting Clark Gable moustaches and wasp-waist corsetry, and pretending to be forties' lounge lizards and film-noir vamps. "Just like the woman who's still Ian McCulloch's wife, incidentally. But soon after Joy Division began, RCA got interested in us, and Richard Searling was their northern talent-spotter at the time. As well as doing the LP - which you can get as a bootleg - he actually got us to cover a northern soul hit, N F Porter's." Thus helping initiate the musical career you'd always planned? "Well, no. Until I saw the Sex Pistols in 1976, and a light opened on a dark room, I'd never considered I had a musical bent. I'm officially tone-deaf and I've got a terrible memory for music. And it's getting worse. If I come up with a riff, I can't find it again on the fretboard." But otherwise, two decades on, you're fine and dandy, yes? "I've never been happier. And I wouldn't be young for anything."l Well said, old Mancunian bean.

From the Kraftwerk mailing list. "Bernard Sumner from New Order was again being interviewed on a UK music show last night,he just mentioned that all the guys in New Order have finally got together again after a few years apart doing solo projects. Maybe we can expect something good, it's been a while. He did mention that there will be a four CD box set of Joy Division material re-released which will include some rare, never released on CD, material"

New Order: Soundtracks: Pretty in pink soundtrack -shellshock added lyrics. Salvation -2:12 Salvation Theme 4:59 Touched by the Hand of God * 3:42 Let's Go 2:28 Sputnik 2:49 Skullcrusher 7:03 Touched by the Hand of God (12" version) ** CDs: Peel Sessions 1982 Peel Sessions 1981

1. that ian curtis pushed for joy division to use synths by bringing in kraftwerk lps and playing them in the studio i also remember a reference to ian having a bit of influence on peter's style of playing high up on the bass (though i can't remember the source). which brings me to the following question: what would have joy division have become if ian had lived? would they have been seduced by the "dark side" and followed the path to goth or would their music evolved in the same way as it did without him? obviously movement had a dark, moody atmosphere to it and was very "joy division-ish". but even in their later work, while the music was less gloomy, the lyrics often had a dark undertone to them ("this is a song about an innocent who died at the hands of a desperate man" - all day long, "wake up every day that would be a start, i would not complain about my wounded heart" - regret). my non-newOrder friends always joked that newOrder was music "to die to".

The music would have evolved about the same way... they were moving in unison, so the difference would have been the lyrics, for the most part. Some better songs perhaps, in having Ian's input, which was imperative in JD, though he did not write songs, he had a lot of ideas. The darkness (or whatever) of U.P. and Closer has nothing to do with the sound later. Good examples are Bauhaus, and even better And Also The Trees, where the lyrics are as romantic (especially with &ATT) yet the music did not remain so. People grow order and experiences change... no reason to think that Ian could have been different, in light of his sense of humor. So, I think that the fact that Closer froze a sound forever, it does not mean that they would have become yet another Christian Death or any of the many gothic bands of the last few years. One other factor that would have influenced the sound could have been Ian's vocal range and what songs would be good for him to sing, so perhaps there would be no World, but Regret and others would be easy to see.

Bizarre Love Triangle

Every time I think of you
I feel shot right through with a bow of gloom
It's no problem of mine
But it's a problem I find
Living a life that I can't leave behind
There's no sense in telling me
The wisdom of a fool won't set you free
But that's the way that it goes
And it's what nobody knows
While every day my confusion grows
Every time I see you falling
I get down on my knees and pray
I'm waiting for that final moment
You'll say the words that I can't say

I feel fine and I feel good
I'm feeling like I never should
Whenever I get this way
I just don't know what to say
Why can't we be ourselves like we were yesterday
I'm not sure what this could mean
I don't think you're what you seem
I do admit to myself
That if I had someone else
Then I'll never see just what we're meant to be

Every time I see you falling
I get down on my knees and pray I'm waiting for that final moment
You'll say the words that I can't say

Touched by the hand of gOD

I was standing by the ocean
when I saw your face...
I never knew it but I guess you knew..
that we were through..
we were through

and every breath we take
in the illusions we create in our lives someday
will come to you someday
will come to you someday..

I was touched
by the hand of god
I never knew it
but i guess i was
I was touched.. by the hand of god.

everything this world was i didn't want..
and everything i own..
it belongs to you
I never though of you in a sexual way like this before
and I never wantto feel so desperately alone like this again.

I was touched touched by the hand of god.

Dreams never end

My promise could be your friend
A given end to your dreams
A simple movement or rhyme
Could be the smallest of signs
We'll never know what they are or care
In it's escapable view
There's no escape so few in fear
Give in a changing value

To be given your sight
Hid in a long peacful night
A nervous bride for your eyes
A fractured smile that soon dies
A love that's wrong from your life and soul
A savage mine had begun
Hello, farewell to your love and soul
Hello, farewell to your soul

Now I know what those hands would do
No looking back now, we're pushing through
We'll change these feelings, we'll taste and see
But never guess how the him would scream
But never guess how the him would scream
But never guess how the him would scream

Doubts even here

Those steps which seem to take a lifetime
When eyes just turn and stare
The day begins, collapsing without warning
You fade from sight, there's nothing there

All talk allowed, calls are answered daily
The questions are on your side
Deeply moved, beyond all consolation
You felt the pulse, now hear the cry

In my mind, thoughts are becoming clearer
I'm watching every move you make
Counting time spent in observation
A single blow a false mistake

Then you revealed to me
All that I need to know now
(The close went down to times
too, too much behind us)
Then please don't turn away,
Why can't I talk to you now?
(The number of forgotten years
Where my honor isn't deepest
Grows the deepest feeling and it
Grieved for safety and despair)
There's nowhere left to go
Where is this taking her and how?
(The torish threats forevermore
Over our natural favor
And us and he's and I'll fall
Far in it, and it sees enough
In our failures and it's not time.)
There's nothing more I want
To know beyond your trust now
(I missed his promised time again
For my friend)
Don't throw our joy away
Why must you just you leave now?
(Has God forgotten to approach us?
Has He rememberd to not despise us?)
Memories are all that's left
I need you near to me now
(There, now, now, don't come to mind my deeds
And call out in defiance of times gone by)

Love Vigilantes

Oh, I've just come from the land of the sun
From a war that must be won in the name of truth
With our soldiers so brave, your freedom we will save
With our rifles and grenades and some help from God
I want to see my family, my wife and child waiting for me
I've got to go home, I've been so alone, you see

You just can't believe the joy I did recieve
When I finally got my leave and I was going home
Oh, I flew through the sky, my convictions could not lie
For my country I would die and I will see it soon
I want to see my family, my wife and child waiting for me
I've got to go home, I've been so alone, you see

When I walked through the door, my wife she lay upon the floor
And with tears her eyes were sore, I did not know why
Then I looked into her hand and I saw the telegram
That said that I was a brave, brave men but that I was dead
I want to see my family, my wife and child waiting for me
I've got to go home, I've been so alone, you see

The Perfect Kiss

I stood there beside myself,
Thinking hard about the weather,
Then came by a friend of mine,
Suggested we go out together
Then I knew it from the start:
This friend of mine would fall apart
Pretending not to see his guilt,
I said "let's go out and have some fun"
I know, you know, we believe in a land of love
I know, you know, we believe in a land of love

I have always thought about
Staying here and going out
Tonight I should have stayed at home,
Playing with my pleasure zone
He has always been so strange,
I'd often thought he was deranged
Pretending not to see his gun,
I said "let's go out and have some fun"
I know, you know, we believe in a land of love
I know, you know, we believe in a land of love

Sub Culture

I like walking in the park
When it gets late at night
I move `round in the dark
And leave when it gets light
I sit around by day
Tied up in chains so tight
These crazy words of mine
So wrong they could be right
What do I get out of this?
I always try, I always miss
One of these days you'll go back to your home
You won't even notice that you are alone
One of these days when you sit by yourself
You'll realise you can't show off without someone else
In the end you will submit
It's got to hurt you a little bit

I like talking in my sleep
When people work so hard
They need what they can't keep
A choice that leaves them scarred
A view without a room
Unveils the truth so soon
And when the sun goes down
You've lost what you had found
What do I get out of this?
I always try, I always miss
One of these days you'll go back to your home
You won't even notice that you are alone
One of these days when you sit by yourself
You'll realise you can't show off without someone else
In the end you will submit
It's got to hurt you a little bit

One of these days you'll go back to your home
You won't even notice that you are alone
One of these days when you sit by yourself
You'll realise you can't show off without someone else
In the end you will submit
It's got to hurt you a little bit
What do I get out of this?
I always try, I always miss
One of these days you'll go back to your home
You won't even notice that you are alone
One of these days when you sit by yourself
You'll realise you can't show off without someone else
In the end you will submit
It's got to hurt you a little bit
What do I get out of this?
I always try, I always miss
One of these days you'll go back to your home
You won't even notice that you are alone

Ceremony

This is why events unnerve me
They find it all, different story
Notice whom for wheels are turning
Turn again and turn towards this time
All she ask's the strength to hold me
Then again the same old story
Word will travel, oh so quickly
Travel first and lean towards this time

Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown
Heaven knows it's got to be this time
Watching� her, these things she said
The time she cried
Too frail to wake this time

Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown
Heaven knows it's got to be this time
Avenues, all lined with trees
Picture me and then you start watching
Watching forever
Forever -w atching love grow
Forever - letting me know
Forever

Everything's gone green

Help me, somebody help me
I wonder where I am
I see my future before me
I'll hurt you when I can

It seems like I've been here before
It seems like I've been here before
It seems like I've been here before
It seems like I've been here before

Confusion sprung up from devotion
A halo that covers my eyes
It stems from this first estrangement
No one have I ever despised

Is this the way that you wanted to pay
Won't you show me, please show me the way
Is this the way that you wanted to pay
Won't you show me, please show me the way

Temptation

A heaven , a gateway, a hope
Just like the feeling inside, it's no joke
And though it hurts me, to treat you this way
Betrayed my words, I'd never heard, too hard to say

Up, down, turn around
Please don't let me hit the ground
Tonight I think I'll walk alone
I'll find my soul as I go home

Up, down, turn around
Please don't let me hit the ground
Tonight I think I'll walk alone
I'll find my soul as I go home

Each way I turn, I know I'll always try
To break this circle that's been placed around me
From time to time, I find I've lost some need
That was urgent to myself, I do believe

Up, down, turn around
Please don't let me hit the ground
Tonight I think I'll walk alone
I'll find my soul as I go home

Up, down, turn around
Please don't let me hit the ground
Tonight I think I'll walk alone
I'll find my soul as I go home

Oh, you've got green eyes
Oh, you've got blue eyes
Oh, you've got grey eyes

Oh, you've got green eyes
Oh, you've got blue eyes
Oh, you've got grey eyes

And I've never seen anyone quite like you before
No, I've never met anyone quite like you before

Thoughts from above hit the people down below
People in this world, we have no place to go

Thoughts from above hit the people down below
People in this world, we have no place to go

Thoughts from above hit the people down below
People in this world, we have no place to go

Thoughts from above hit the people down below
People in this world, we have no place to go

Oh, it's the last time
Oh, it's the last time
Oh, it's the last time
Oh, it's the last time
Oh, it's the last time
Oh, it's the last time

Oh, I've never met anyone quite like you before
Oh no, I've never met anyone quite like you before

Confusion

(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you mean to me
(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you cannot see

You're hiding from feelings, searching for more
Sharing and hoping, untouched for so long
Or lives still change from the way that we were
And now I'll tell you something I think you should know

You just can't believe me
When I show you what you mean to me
You just can't believe me
When I show you what you cannot see

(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you mean to me
(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you cannot see

You just can't believe me
When I show you what you mean to me

Confusion, confusion, confusion

You cause me confusion, you told me you cared
He's calling these changes that last to the end
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies
The past is your present, the future is mine

You just can't believe me
When I show you what you mean to me
You just can't believe me
When I show you what you cannot see

(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you mean to me
(Confusion) You just can't believe me
(Confusion) When I show you what you cannot see

You tell me you need me, I'll make it this time
The threat won't divide us, the sensation survives
I was sure that I told you it was clear from your face
You've caused me some problems, you've taken my place
(Why can't you see what you mean to me?)
Why can't you see?
Why can't you see?
Why can't you see what you mean to me?

Why can't you see?
Why can't you see?
Why can't you see what you mean to me?

Why can't, why can't why can't why can't why can't why can't

Why can't you see what you mean to me?